Session Information:

Why RPA Programs Fail and How to Prevent it

Session Transcript:

Speaker coming from Florida today, and I'm talking about Mladen Milanovic is the vice-president of Engineering Responsible for Procedures RPA Program globally.

In last 2.5 years, ... and his team have been working with customers from industry, from different industry verticals, evangelizing, robotics, process automation, and intelligent automation, and customer care. With more than 20 years of experience and customer care, .... And, his team are specializing in increasing efficiency and contact center, and improving customer experiences, law, than what a pleasure to have you with us. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and expertise in this area with our global audience, today.

No, no problem. It's a, it's a pleasure. Definitely. So, let me start this.

So, let me show my presentation, uh, I hope that you guys can see my presale.

Looks good, OK, perfect.

So first, good afternoon, good evening, Or thank you for very much for dedicated time for all or my session.

So today, we are going to talk about why RPA programs fail and how to prevent it.

When we thought about this, what we're going to talk about today, we knew that this specific subject has been approach multiple times for different practitioners. But today, we feel that talking about potential tailors and how to prevent failure of the RPA program is very important.

Keeping in mind, we're robotic process automation. And intelligent automation, as a whole, is, at what point is it, Where it is from the industry standpoint and from the adoption standpoint.

So so let's kind of start talking about it. And this is a quick review what we were going to be talking about. Before we dig into D or dive into the content of the presentation, I would like to kind of spend couple of minutes talking about the Presidio. As we feel that we are bringing on the intelligent automation and RPA market, very unique approach in very unique, kind of different set of applied.

How we approach to the, to the automation in general, first of all, who we are, proceeding as global digital services and solution provider.

And our goal is to accelerate business transformation by modernizing in securing our client's information technology.

So Presidio has over 30 years of experience, in a traditional information technology space.

And we partner with the different manufacturers across the board, the skull, Juniper, Avaya, Genesis, and so on, and so on.

And we are bringing a set of technologies in our portfolio, both of services and software that we can offer.

Our clients, put us in very unique position that we can really deliver on the overall business outcome.

We operate in a very unique space, which is kind of lower enterprise and mid-market in our customers around the pressure, right? They are competing with technology companies and day. our customers do not have ability. Or they don't have enough time or they don't have enough skills internally to run and build those technology projects. So that's where we come.

So our main goal is to be a trusted advisor to our customers and help them select a set of technology solutions and services in order to be able to deliver on the business outcome and disrupt the industries in which they are they are operating.

So, if you look our, our footprint. We're fully global company, We ship, deliver, and implement in over 160 countries, and we are, we serve over a thousand international customers. We recently acquired a significant capability is offshore. So, our near shore onshore and offshore capabilities are huge.

So now, we are equipped that we can better serve our clients, no matter where they are at. Or no matter in which zone, time zone they are operate.

So without further ado, let's just jump into the, into the today's presentation.

Is a pointed out the, today, we feel that the robotic process automation and intelligent information.

And I want to kind of, for a purpose of this presentation, talk about, when I talk about RPA, I also talk about hyper automation and intelligence information. Because today, that's the entire technology stack that we really need to need to address. So, anyway.

So RPA is a mainstream. If we look at the hype curve, we are now outside of those parts of the hype curve where technology was new. We know that RPA has a proven, we already know the limitations and abilities of the RPA, and the RPA is becoming adopted by multiple different organizations.

So it's not just limited technology debt.

May be early adopters or disruptors, we'll use that to increase the efficiencies across the board. Now we are seeing a traditional customers for, from different industries, different sizes, and different shapes, different verticals, are adopting the robotic process automation.

Imbeds capture definitely in that, in our overall market size.

And if you guys see, uh, the grandview research already estimated RP market size in 20 27, which is the five years, it's going to be over 25 billion.

The CAGR, overall CAGR for, for the entire RPA industry is a 41%.

And then recently, Deloitte surveyed 442 executives from 29 countries.

And they find that 73% of those surveyed executives already started the RPA journey.

So we see that, that adoption is there. And we are seeing more and more companies are really investing heavily. It's not just exploring, but also doing robotic process automation into there.

And kind of integrating the RPA into their overall business model.

Now, it's not, everything is not that the rows, The, if, I can say like, that, We are seeing, also, at the same token, we're seeing a, some of the red flag that people would like down here.

So, when we, Mackenzie did a research and they find out that out of all surveyed executives and companies, only 61% of them met their automation targets. So they implemented automation. They, yeah, they integrated RPA, is the RPA in their business model and business practices.

However, over 30% of them and that's like a third.

Still didn't heed to those goals and those results that they were, they were aiming for.

So that's a first threat.

D previously mentioned Beloit Survey.

Also, notice that Automation, Maturity, grade, and it goes from 1 to 10, is 441.

And that was measured on 122, a survey, and comparing end of 2019.

We are see the 2019, that, that score was, of 4.24, so zero point twenty, or zero point eighteen, was slight increase in the automation maturity within the organization, that, the organizations that already are implementing the implementing automation. So we're seeing that.

Ah, even though companies are implementing automations, that's another indicator that the executives are aware that automations that they deployed didn't reach, or they didn't realize the potential that that intelligence Declamation can bring.

And lastly, Ernst and Young did another survey, and they find out that it's a very wide range, but there is a 30 to 50% the RPA implementation baler rate, which is a problematic.

So even though throughout the entire quarried 19 pandemic, we saw very unique circumstances in which businesses were needed to find innovative ways to augment that the, the workforce, to increase capacity, increase flexibility in response on their customers' needs.

We are still seeing that there is a significant portion of the of the market or customers that are not leveraging or not realizing benefits of the automations as they are should write.

So in conversation with multiple executives, it is clear that RPA journey has not been easy win for many of the customers. It's almost a third, right.

And especially we are seeing problems where companies are trying to K L.

They are a localized proof of concept.

So basically what we are seeing is that companies jump into the donation program with building some proof of concepts and each practitioner or every RP partner, we're very keen to offer the proof of concepts and we always deliver on those.

However, moving from that, successful proof of concept, to a production automation, and then scaling a creating a stable demand, is something that was definitely a challenge.

And, with lots of executives, uh, at some point, put programs or robotic process automation on pause until they understood better what these, the, now, path forward into their automation program.

We even talking to our customers and their different different clients, So Presidio, we find a pore most significant, the reasons why RPA progress might fail. Or, why, or, what can put the RPA program to the stall.

The first one is a underestimating complex.

So here's the problem with the promise of huge savings.

Companies are tempted to get straight straight into technical development without understanding customer, ample, and employee touchpoints and information flows. So, basically, we all look into the ROIs and ROI calculations that every RPA platform can provide are very high and very tempting, right. So, what's happening there is that we immediately say, OK, let's just do, let's pick up the process and let's just do it, and let's just start harnessing dose State.

The problem is that more often, we select the processes that are on a surface, simple, but under when we start analyzing, they are very complex. They are not optimized, and we ended up really automating processes that are not clean, which, at the end of the day, creates a nightmare for maintenance and extends overall implementation time, and move from the proof of concept to the production phase.

Another question is, another issue is the technical feasibility or lack of IT readiness.

As a company that we've seen that in information technology, we work closely with the information technology leaders.

However, cloud disruption was able to move a technology decision and technology conversation from traditional IDEs into the into the business unit.

And often, the businesses are avoiding conversation about the technical limitation or maturity of the current technology stack.

And they tend to involve internal information, IT departments early into the conversation that potentially can lead to a stall of the RPA program.

And because we have to get another cycles to get all those systems, even though they are Cloud, approved by information technology, approved by security. And make sure that we are able to leverage all those applications. And all those information system touchpoints and needed to complete automation process.

Regulatory and security concerns are kind of overlapping lida, IT readiness, and technical feasibility.

Simply, we were recently working with the big university based in the United States, where we did a significant prototyping around their automation program.

But we didn't include the information security and compliance team, which we treated a little bit later in a process. But that does create. Some of the of the delay seemed to overall implementation because we had to rehash sit on things and redesign certain things in order to meet internal security standard.

And last, but not the least, is that definitely a, a lack of skills. So lack of skills, it's not just lack of those technical skills.

It's a more, maybe we should call, that lack of focus to implement.

Because most of the organizations, or businesses that are very eager to start their automation programs in what they do, they take people from a production and give them, they are the kinds of responsibilities around the RPA program, as their second job. So, what we are seeing, that, the sum of the employees, that are part of the automation initiative, you'll do not have a focus, because there's still lots of things to do in their day job.

And they're taking RPA as a, as a extra project, it didn't get enough box enough attention.

So, all of those things, we feel that it's important to address when we are speaking of a lack of skills, we recently worked with the Fortune 100 clients that really embrace Agile. And they have, They already have agile technology squad Deployed very close to their product or business unit.

Long story short, they had a teams that were deploying the automations internally, but because of, uh, their inability to scale or react faster, in order to onboard automation from the idea, two A, to the, to, to the production, it took them between 9120 days.

So, this diagram, I took from UI Path Automation operating model, because he does a really nicely illustrates all the points where automation program can potentially go from the ...

access to the failure, or from the Success to Stagnation.

And we see the star is that POC proving phase.

And as we are moving from the proving phase, if we do not have A clearly understand automation roadmap, we are very easily can go to the risk of failure. Let's say, if we don't know our roadmap, or if we choose a process that is not adequate for automation, we can get into the failure because there'll be disappointment, complex, implementation, expensive implementation, or implementation of the automation that is not timely.

If we are in a phase where we successfully deploy the proof of concept, there is a another point where we can go either be successful or get into the stagnation and that goes to that roadmap, prioritize roadmap of the automations where we know, OK, we did automate process A and B and now we need to move.

Here is the list of other processes and that the demand management can literally make a huge difference between stagnation and acceleration of the overall overall automation program.

So how we at Presidio think that our clients should start with automation.

So we like Jim Karels, Key Innovation Message, which is: Think big, start Small, and then scale path.

We strongly believe that the sentence or the saying is the kind of embodies the way how we should look an approach to the Robotic Process Automation Program.

Think big give us opportunity to create that automation roadmap and that aspiration What are those processes and what are those businesses that we want to automate? And, and increase the efficiency score.

Start small.

Help us with building that, that prototype. And growing from the prototype to something that is from idea to something that is tangible. And that we can measure success of our program. And then scale fast, because now we have a prototype.

We have some experiences and we have that idea and that vision and we want to Gail fast, based on, on the, on our overall vision of our program.

Keeping in mind that the innovation strategy, we build the A R.

Framework, automation of Port Framework for Success, that these significantly based on a traditional design thinking model.

So there is a four phase, this plus one.

And their IDA prototype expanded scale. And the bottom one eats, in fact, managed, managed services in which we are providing a unique opportunities for our clients to focus on the innovation while we take a responsibility of caring, feeding and managing those implemented automation. So let's look at those those, those components. So in ...

phase, Presidio, or, you know, internal teams, we can participate or lead workshops, we can really help, and guide the businesses and technology leaders, to really understand what are those pro high value processes that have a significant opportunity for automation.

At the same time, during the ideation phase, we are considering and analyzing the existing technology stack, and creating and mapping the needs for potentially prominent in the tech stack, in order to really support, that, the desire, business outcome, that we came to during our ideation process.

During the prototype phase, we are rapidly building a functioning prototype, which is our starting point for validation of the idea.

But also, it gives us a better understanding how we are going to structure the next phases, both from a timeline perspective, as well as the cost and, and support perspective. At the end of the day, you know, I like when we are speaking with our clients to bring the costs, because it is a significant part of the overall ROI strategy, because we have a licensing cost. We have implementation costs and managed services and managed, or run cost.

So, all of that, we like to talk, when we are talking to our customers, really, present, upfront, because that's going to give us a something, ah, tangible, that we can bring to the executive team or board, in order to approve or reshape the approach to the automation program.

During the expand phase, we can really work.

While our customers are adopting our initial automations, we can work and the lead dose.

automation, discovery sessions or workshops where we are going to create a demand or create the automation roadmap.

And lastly, scale is really trying to go and follow that automation roadmap where we are going to help our clients develop those automations, bring those ideas in that roadmap to the life and then really show how we can implement those automations. Speaking of for that fortunate Honda decline that we work with.

And just to remind you, their overall kind of timeline for implementing automation was between 9120 days. We were able to bring that down to the 2, 4 weeks.

Because we were able to bring additional resources that are completely cross functional, and we are able to really bring in and knowledge from different areas of technology in order to deliver a solution that really delivers on that business outcome.

Anyway, lastly, run, uh, we feel that everything needs a managed services component and kind of out tasking or outsourcing the that manage or run a function to a to a partner. Or to a company gives gives our customers more focus on their automation program, because they can be focused more on innovation while we are taking care of all the running there.

Ultra ... infrastructure or overall robotic overall robotic systems.

So let's look again how these rain work saves us or how this frame work really matches up against the risk of stagnation Taylor. First, we have ideation that goes directly at the beginning. And that's the phase year off, everything. So we are able to, at that time, assess all the necessary, all the needs in all potential risks for our future automation program.

With the prototyping, we are ready to do establish phase.

We are ready to show the working prototype, and then set A clear metrics for measuring the performance of our automation program.

We, they, with a scale phase, we can really provide or capture that automation roadmap.

And as we are moving from the prototyping phase and production phase, we can come prepared, intervene now. What are the next processes, or next systems that we need to automate, without really getting into the risk of stagnation?

And lastly, having the dedicated and the cross functional resources give, give our customers an opportunity to accelerate their automation programs by bringing technologies or technical solution. They created that intelligent automation framework in which we can leverage those complex and more challenging automation scenarios.

And lastly, in order to keep the pace with innovation, we can outsource, and we can take care of the managed services and in the run function, and still have the team focused on, on increasing their internal innovation, and increasing rate of adoption of their RPA.

So anyway, let's conclude, because I know the time between, that you guys spend a lunch.

So here is the quote, equation for success, that that McKinsey put maybe a few years back, technologists plus techniques is equal optimal value.

And if you see, there are those cross functional resources, and that's that holistic approach, that we, as they are RPA practitioners, need to pay when we are assessing the automation problem.

The robotic process automation in its own, is not going to be an adequate solution. It may be solve one part of the problem.

The holistic approach, leveraging D, uh, unique, or ...

fi, intelligent automation platform that can integrate robotic process automation, machine learning, OCR, natural language understanding technologies, as well as ability to leverage the APIs, when they are available, easy, in fact. That portfolio of technology solutions, that can help us.

The rest, the unique automation, proper mold or acclamation challenge, and deliver on the automation out.

From a unique perspective, That's what we are talking about. We are talking about the framework we're practitioners and internal teams are bringing to the table that starched me the design thinking.

But then it goes beyond design thinking, bringing in techniques from a 6 sigma 4.

Cleaning, the process, says, understanding what are those touchpoints for both external and internal customers or users of the process?

And then, creating that prototype, which will, I don't want to say it, will be minimum viable product.

But it will be minimum unlikable product that addresses a needs of the addresses that the business outcome that was put in front of closet, but by the business leader.

And lastly, when we collect all of those, integrated we, when we produce, that, we believe, is going to create the optimal value for our customers.

And, we feel that the framework that we build over over years that we are delivering our services is really in line with what the, what business consultants are seeing and management consultants esteem across the different, different roles. So, I'm going to thank you very much for your time today.

I really appreciate it.

And, if you guys had any questions, feel free to reach out or hit me on LinkedIn. I'm always willing to have a conversation. Again, this is, this is a very interesting technologies. So, so we are all working together, in order to improve, overall, not just the customer experience, but also experience of our employees.

Thank you very much.

Lot of fantastic presentation. Thank you for that. Lots of great questions that have come up here. So thank you for everybody who's participating again and submitting your questions. You ask some really interesting questions. So I have lots of questions, my own mind, but my question is, does not matter.

I want to ask the questions from the audience, and I was started early on in the presentation.

You talked about some surveys, and benchmarks, and you discussed briefly about a maturity model, and one of our participants asked about the automation maturity model. I think most people know that, you know, that IT has this maturity models, and I'm curious if you can shed some light on them a lot. Is there a maturity model for automation, or you're, kind of, like, borrowing from the typical IT maturity model?

So there is a, there is a automation maturity model And there is something that is also very important, that in the last five years, get the get the big traction is automation operating model as well.

And we feel that, that in order to build a sustainable automation program, we feel that having the both maturity assessment at the beginning, and then graduate to the automation operating model is extremely important.

Because, otherwise, the scaling up will not be possible.

Especially for a smaller organization, using all components of the automating operating model would might be an overkill.

But if we are talking about a bigger organization, especially if your organization or automation program, that will serve multiple different business units, that's something where we see a, really, it goes up, how can put it a dose?

Uh, those solution or that framework shows extremely good results, moving forward.

And without getting too much in detail, because I know you'll probably need a whole entire session, just on that automation maturity model. Can you just kind of mention a few of the items that may be on the maturity model that you may find relevant?

Like when you when an organization has low maturity, and it's increasing its maturity level? What do you see as the most maybe important components, 1 or 2 key components on that maturity growth?

So we definitely see there's a three impact: the first one is a Understanding of the processes. Number two is the IT readiness, as we put, or let's not call it, IT, technology, readiness, and skill maturity within the organization.

And when I talk about skill maturity of the organization, the important is that cross functional thinking.

Because, unfortunately, what we are seeing is, we're seeing experts working in a silo.

So building that the mindset in which we are going to create a team that is going to look above or beyond the silo is extremely important to increase that overall maturity of the program and assess and have like a successful program moving forward.

Very, very good, as this is an excellent comment you have just made there. You have just mention one or the two critical components that we have found on the successful implementation of intelligent automation. Our last session today, we're gonna be talking about the, man, the governance and mechanisms, and culture is specifically for intelligent automation implementation. And you have just mention three items. They're very important in that journey, so thank you for that. Next question is an interesting one. And it's a bit of a challenge question, because the promise of RPA is that we're going to come in and we're going to automate this month, the questions. So that you are going to have the freedom to do, like higher level. Or it can use your creativity and innovate. And that's wonderful. But what people are saying there are, the, the audience are saying, I'm now more stressed out than before because now I have an RPA that doesn't work right all the time.

And I, and I have to be the learning the details of this automation, and I don't have any more time for innovative work. I'm actually consume now by all this, suppose intelligent automation. So, I'm sure that this is kind of a broad statement, but what's going on, that you think that this RPA implementations fail to the point that people are really not better off. They feel like they have more work now, even though they have robots are supposed to be assisting them.

So, so the, it's, uh, blessed enough curse, so the automation, if you want.

So, the fact that we can very quickly jump into the technical work and start programming and developing those robots. and that the, what the old, those low code or no code the environment gave us.

It really expose us to the risk of, number one, not really thinking about what we are automating, how we are automating, and who we are putting in charge of our automation program.

Let me share B Let me share the internal experience that we have with Presidio.

We hit all of those roadblocks when we started our internal Robotic Process Automation Program. So, what we did?

In fact, we made a so, we didn't, we immediately, as a technologist thought, yeah, let's let's, it's a no code. Let's just do it.

So, we started doing it, and then we ended up with the automation. It was extremely complex, and every day, we had to do something in order to keep that robots running.

So, what we ended up doing, we were, then we said, OK, that doesn't work. We don't have time for it. We want to take care of our customers.

I cannot be bothered, or I can not be working on maintaining our internal robot. So what we did, we sat down with our team, we redesigned the process, we understood more details, what we are touching. And then we did automation, and I will tell you right now, I don't remember last time when I personally touch one of those robots, that they're working 24, 7, and maintaining our financial operations.

So, I think that the, that's a very important moment in which we need to start from a beginning, select the right process, and work with the leaders, and SMEs on that process to clean it up.

That's the first step.

Ladies and gentlemen, so if, for those of you who are watching live, that's wonderful. for those of you who are watching this on demand, which is a lot of people will watch it later on on Demand, rewind this portion of the tape and lay back. Because what he has just share with you is the essence of a real practitioner the lot and is not writing books of our RPA. He is implementing it, So he knows all works. And what doesn't work from that personal experience.

And professional experience, and why he has just share with you is, is, is, sounds like common sense. But common sense is the least common of the senses. In larger organizations. People are not doing what Milan than just talked about here.

And as a matter of fact, in London, there's a, there's a statement here on the, on the, on the, on the chat from Marcus ..., again, who is the Global Vice President of Manufacturing. For Johnson and Johnson, someone who has tremendous experience globally on, on, on implementing automation and processes around the world. And this is also can be on the context of Lean and sometimes on ajao implementations, This kind of fits that. And I'll quote, he says I have an additional perspective on why companies struggle to scale proven pilots.

two elements, there was a lack of change management and there's poor pool process and too many pilots on different fronts that in nature are different, but when it comes to scaling, they usually complete, compete for the same resources. So, this is In addition to what ...

has, just talked about, Which is the fact that you don't have a good process ownership, and enjoy an understanding of that process.

And if you wanna automate unnecessary complexity, you're going to end up with an unnecessarily complex automation, and that often doesn't even reflect what's really going on in the business. So, so, you know, the fundamentals of understanding or process sounds like such common sense, but people jumping to automation as much as they will jump in Agile and Lean implementations. And they lose sense of the whole and, and, and it's not one or the other. You gotta do both. We got a master those contradictions to be success, so we gotta think high lab, we've got to think details.

You gotta, you gotta follow some of this incredible guidelines that milad un is sharing with us here today. I add one more thing. one more thing is that also people get wrapped into the tail end.

My thought or how we approach is your process is 0% automated today.

If we do 80% or even 70% that's, again. So let's address What is the ... and let's make that ... and leave humans with exceptions. That's fine as well.

If that's the first step and to your point, then we can Agile.

When we start scaling, we can go back and address that tail end.

So don't be overzealous in automation.

I want 100% automated profit from 0 to 50 for huge success.

You said, And a lot of that just speaks of your experience and knowledge of design thinking as well, because we both know that, you know, you've taken the 80% approach. Now, you can maybe automate something nicely. If you're going to capture the last 20%, that's where the complexity becomes exponential.

Know, that's why people end up with 600 page procedures because they know they could have a 60 page procedure that covers 80%, but now they want to cover 100%, 600 pages. So, you know, you've gotta understand, that's a design thinking approach that I love, and thanks for bringing that up. And you know that the last 20%, that you've gotta, you gotta make sure that it's worth, you know, encompassing that, because usually requires special approaches. So This is, these are fantastic insights that you have, you have share, here. Let's take a more positive approach here.

Some of the questions that came up have to do with, OK, The organizations that do it well, think about the organization, work with that. You know what? They've done it Well, maybe they didn't dwell from the beginning, but they learned their last as they do well.

What does it look like? How, how have they hop at this point of maturity that they're doing well? Let's see, in place there. You're already talking about some of the elements. But what is kind of distinguishing feature of this? organizations that are being successful at the RPA and intelligent automation? What you see on them that makes them stand out.

So number one, they have a very well established theory. So that's no doubt. Having the theory with a very structured charter and who is doing what. It's very important.

They have a, they evangelize. They have automation first mindset.

And this is very important, because it goes to education and goes, it's not just, hey, let's make that ivory tower. That exists then we have a website within the organization's SharePoint where we are ...

But COD that is proactively going and educating everybody for all my talk from a bottom to top with the top being a support for the CIE is something that so few, if you wanna see if you wanna ask me, what is the, that the every single successful organization has?

Beds?

That automation, first mindset, every single person within the business unit is aware of the program itself. Where of the benefits and they know where to go.

We can have as many Executive Support as we want. The having A people on the field that are doing the work. Understanding what the automation is and what is the automation? A goal of the C.o.a.b.

is something that is driving the program and I have to be very honest and maybe it's it.

That's where we're at right now within the Presidio internally.

We have our field sellers coming to us with ideas, how they want us to improve our internal operations.

So, and that's exactly where we want it to be from the kernel, Presidio, adoption of the of the automation.

Very, very good. one final question here to wrap this up, what have you seen in the, in your experience? You know, there's so many different approaches we have heard, you know, we had a, we had someone who sells RPA, you know, solutions platforms early on. Then we had someone who use RPA as a service.

Instead of acquiring the platform, you know, you know, as a different approach, What do you think is the best approach? And I mean, there are, there are lots of vendors of RPA and platforms of RPA. How do you keep getting housed you, outsource talk briefly about what is the best approach when it comes to choosing an RPA provider? And the developing the capabilities.

So here's how I would I So when we speak about RPA as a service, I will the, I'll be very honest, I strongly believe that RPA components as a service.

I think that that's something that, that, that's going to become de facto industry standard.

We do not see unless in a very unique circumstances for an unique industries and compliance it's someone who's going to have the components in house. So RP is series from that perspective. Yes.

Now, I am a huge believer into the hybrid model from the service perspective.

Outsourcing your tire RPA program is not going to work. Because nobody knows your business. Is, you know, so what we feel is having the organization that is going to co-ordinate the partners that are going to help you out in each one of those phases.

And leveraging, consuming the RPA technology as a service from the RPA provider, I think that that's the best mix.

I don't think that you can, even though they are specific, but they're like, service providers. You, you are in a in a healthcare, in, and you do some authorizations or whatever, right In there is a company that does that that's a different story that's complete the outsourcing the process. Right.

If you want to have, I think it's hybrid, you will have, and you will run the business outcomes, and create automation roadmap, and then you will use a partner to fill those gaps, skill gaps that you don't have, in order for you to be able to scale. That's how I think.

Excellent. Thank you so much, ..., for sharing your wisdom and expertise, practical perspectives on implementing RPA for value creation and sustainability. On behalf of our global audience, thank you so much for taking the time to be here with us.

Ladies and gentleman that was ..., Vice President of Engineering at ... Sharing, their perspectives are there RPE program on a global scale? Now? We're going to be taking a break here now, and I will be back with you to wrap up. They, one of RPA and intelligent automation live.

We're gonna be looking at more than one thousand organizations, and the benchmark for those organizations will have sustainably implemented intelligent automation solutions. Beyond that.

They have become value creation leaders and dominant in their fields.

What are the, what are the traits of those organizations, the components for their success? And most important, I want you to know what there are two skills that they develop. Why Lilly as an organizational competence and in their professionals and choose skills. They're separate multi trillion dollar organizations from multi-billion dollar organizations and multi million dollar organizations. And we're gonna be talking about how do they scale innovation for value creation and they shape their cultures as a comparative advantage. So we'll be seeing that at the top of the hour directly with me. In the meantime, take a break. You can check the LinkedIn post under my name for this conference and the post in additional comments, thank our sponsors. Thank our speakers, connect with our speakers directly right there, and, and continue the conversation. So, for now, enjoy a break, and I'll see you back at the top of the hour.