Session Information:

End-to-end Cloud Transformation & Governance

Excellent. I'll say, thanks for having me.

Welcome to everyone.

Unfortunately, as Jose announced, I will not share, my will not be able to share my video, forgive me for this, but I hope this will be insightful anyways.

And we will have a lot of topics to to cover in the next 45 minutes.

So my talk will be about end to end cloud transformation and governance.

And I'm presenting Linux, Hale, Deny Access, a German based, software as a service vendor, originally in the enterprise architecture space, but we help our customers more and more, also in the cloud native governance and cloud migration space.

But before I tell you to San Francisco Bartley Nikes, just adding, to watch, as I said in the beginning and also to gives you a picture, my name is Dominic. I'm I'm sorry, six on the ....

And I'm a computer scientist and sometimes I find myself in strange vocations, Fizzles, and sales.

And so like I'm still not by an HIV, but I try to TA value from a business perspective.

And I was lucky enough in the last five years to help Linux evolve from a startup into a global organization.

Feel free to reach out afterwards via mail or connect on LinkedIn more than happy to to network.

So, that's a non ... is a German based software, as a service veranda.

And we were born with the imperative to, to change the way architecture is been doing and companies. So architecture before has been a very expert centric domain with lots of models, UML, BPM, and et cetera. Around.

What we're trying to do is to provide a great usable user interface with a high degree of automation, and to democratize access to architecture data for many people in the company.

Be a business owner, be leadership, but also project managers or support people.

On I'd like to sound some thoughts about those three different topics with you guys today.

Let's start a bit with some quick observations, where we see the topic of cloud native and tried to translate, and also give you some clear recommendation with why, if you haven't started yet, this is a clear imperative overcoat company and software development today.

We will look a bit into the topic of cloud migrations, spend some time around, why are we as an industry, as an IT industry so sorbet and conducting a transformation in time and budget.

And finally, I hope I give you, kind of give you also some nice ideas, some smart approaches, that you kind of take home and change in your company to hopefully make it a bit better next time in terms of planning in terms of governance.

So let's start off and let's look into cloud native.

So I don't tell you anything you say. I mean, we're on a cloud conference. So cloud has arrived in the mainstream 90% of companies all cloud. People are talking about cloud only, cloud preferred strategy, and so on and so on.

But still cloud native is is a topic with with some misconceptions. There are a lot of customers on a good way, or a lot of companies, on a good way. Obviously, Cloud power companies, but also a lot of cloud pioneers. And I really recommend you to check out the Sienna CF Case Study site to learn also, how classical companies take a challenge of a cloud native migration and learn to embrace topics like DevOps, continuous integration, local services.

Um, what's still important is if you're dealing with this topic and again, this is nothing new to us, here to writing.

It's a business decision to become cloud native and it's also business projects to run your cloud migration.

This is what our clients are telling us each and every day.

It's so important to reach out to the business owner and understand why are we actually shifting assets into the cloud? Why are we actually investing into micro services? To me it comes down to those five points. It's about company USPS and focus.

It's about agility.

It's about IT security. It's about IT talent. And I cannot.

I cannot overstate this one.

Cause it's more and more important to get access to the right people. And it's also to, to be able to scale and to automate.

We look into those topics very quickly. I mean, it's a focused topic. Again, it's nothing new. But it's so important to think about this again and again and again.

Cloud transformation of cloud native transformation help you to focus on what makes you great. You let go of networking, you let go of virtualization and the like. If you feel that, it doesn't create any value for you, and to focus on Platform as a Service, or even a Software as a service to run your business.

Um, again, it's business decision in terms of speed on, once you have workloads in the cloud, with AWS with Azure, don't X, don't expect that something is changing from day one.

So, only because your legacy system is now on with AWS, nothing is changing, but you need to come.

Consequently invest into state of the art technologies to get your return on investment of a cloud migration.

IT security, we relaunched the study last year, with, within our customer base, with EA and IT management practitioner, and we found offset one-off some major obstacle on the digital transformation.

It's still IOT security, um, they will fall second link and say, why is this a cloud adoption topic for two reasons.

one is, um, can your company really compete with the armies of cloud security specialist on AWS or Azure, et cetera? All your data, A lot more secure.

But B, obviously, having your data in the public cloud will not leave you on the responsibility, too.

Maintain.

It's there and building up a topnotch, cloud security practice, Some of the things that you need to do, in any case.

Talking about talent.

And so, this is so important, those days, in, particular, in Germany, but also worldwide as talent shortage is becoming a business risk for enterprises.

Talent shortage is something that will distinguish the successful companies, in the next years, forms the unsuccessful companies.

And, what does it mean?

It does mean that you need to embrace an agile environment.

You need to embrace an environment where talent can unleash their potential.

Do you need also to take care, too?

Um, keep your existing talent. And all of this is possible.

If you allow people to navigate technology and be great technology adopters. And this is part of this cloud native initiative as well IS, a technology guy and I as a developer, I'm motivated by modern technology.

I'm motivated by using the latest stuff out there and if one can reconcile this wisdom, necessarily, governance that you need in a corporate. So, this is actually a win-win situation.

Um, it's impossible to acknowledge that we are beyond the stage with us.

This was only an opinion, There's evidence.

And, for example, you can see checks, this exponential study in here, said, the investment into innovations, investment, into technology excellence, It's actually tied to business success.

And nobody wants to be left behind, obviously.

Yeah, so, again, they are really good reasons.

Not only to shift workloads into the cloud, up step by step, embrace cloud native, more and more.

So I believe, says, well, it's not really news, but more like, potentially reconfirmation, some knowledge that you anyway set, but maybe, it's some good facts, example that you can share when you go back to your companies.

Let's now look into the topic of migrations and transformation as a bit more into another one.

There are so many good role models, wholesale, all successful transformations.

So if we look into space, actually, into NASA, just compare, for example, 19 70 to 19 84.

To 20 19.

It's somehow possible to transform user experience to transform value creation within just a few years.

Other industries are keeping capable of doing this. But still, I T is not capable of really handling large transformations.

And we look carefully into this topic and identified some numbers.

When you talk to people, You do good evidence, that 70% of IT transformation, to failing in terms of not delivering and time and budget.

And when we listen to our customer base and others, we have identified those core points, complication, monitoring, and risk management.

Again, no news.

But still, very important to think about this, and that's one more aspect.

If you are responsible for the cloud migration in your company, um, you, for sure, have so many things currently on your plate. Starting out, we're seeing such a planned anyways.

Like, Yes, you need another ERP system or you need to merge or carve out your business unit.

Now, think also about covert like your entire operating model has been changing.

So, obviously, your task is not only to co-ordinate, like, says, I'd order to bring stuff into the cloud or make stuff more cloud native.

But, obviously, it is heavily conflicting with us, and pirated also as well.

Um, that set.

It's also important to acknowledge that, um, the cloud environment is still heavily evolving.

So, in a way, you're also transforming your things into a moving target.

Still, AWS, and Azure and GCP are growing, but still, it's also clear that hybrid scenarios, like private cloud, with public cloud, they as a reality for so long time.

So if you want to plan your transformation into the cloud, you also better prepare or evolving things.

And four, see the constellation off your cloud data with some private or hybrid cloud for a long time.

hon.

So that's obviously saying that it's hot too, ... then you obviously, one day right now, Dominic, what what does it mean?

What ideas can you share with us, too, to actually make it potentially a bit better?

So, I want to give you five ideas right now.

Clarify Deist on how you can, uh, smart new approach for planning and for governance of a cloud migration.

And I would love to get into discussion afterwards, to challenge this, and say, Yes, this is working in my environment, or maybe this is not working because of this reason.

So, let us start.

Follow Cloud adoption framework.

No news here at all, I mean, AWS, and Azure, and so on. And they are telling the story again.

And again, but if we listen to, to, to pros in the cloud migration markets, and it's still, very, often, the basics are missing.

The basics are missing to, have a framework, what to do with my, with my workloads, and doesn't matter whether you're following AWS here, or whether you're following Gardiner or somebody else.

In terms of what do I actually do with my, with my existing application, with my existing systems.

But to have a concise understanding?

What it means to the host, to re platform, to reproaches, took effect, to retire, and to retain.

And also have the cloud migration discussion around.

So, six options, particularly as if a tie optional, so, really interesting one as well, because whatever you decide you no longer need, you don't have to.

You don't have to move. It makes it faster in the end.

So, to acknowledge the full spectrum of potential decisions when you move stuff into the cloud or when you improve or when you lift and when you're when you refactor things which are actually already in the cloud is obviously still key.

Um, once you have it in place, your entire transformation can be cut down into three phases and was transformation I mean, not something that is starting new, tamale.

But, obviously, you are in the middle of your transformation. And, as I argued before, with hybrid cloud and so on, the transformation will be ongoing.

So wherever you are today, it's important to think about what workloads to the cloud today, Which workloads do I want to bring into the Cloud, next? And then to plan out your migration, to understand the dependencies, to understand the business impact.

Like why are you actually moving things, and then understanding, how is your landscape looking like, in the future?

It's also essential for the planning phase.

But then, obviously, and we came to Seattle in, in the slide, to God's transformation as well.

A plan will fail.

A plan will fail, if you're not supplemented with, with governance.

If you're not from day one, understand the workload that I have, the clout as a really meeting my expectations here.

For example, if I have an AWS only strategy, and I want to be alerted if I see workloads appealing Cloud, malformed, or if I have a ... strategy, so they want to be really careful to say, where am I still using plain VMs? Where am I not using ... are lambdas yet, and how can I react to this?

And obviously, also, in terms of costs and in violation, on an architectural perspective, I went directly to understand we are have been too fast, for example, where data just moved some stuff into the cloud, but did not follow best practice with AWS. And we learned about security already.

Where do I still have some some ports open where do still have some attack vectors? That will not only allow some summer take us to try to think about how they can?

Because I can enter my environment, but even worse or same? Same as bad.

At same time, it will also make my planning unreliable, because if I have to fire fight all the time, close security holes, how can I follow the plan? So, that made in the very beginning.

We looked into this three steps right now.

It's often undervalued, but it's so important, too, to ring everyone.

That is around the decision, the same topic.

So, now, we, we already emphasize the value of the six as a framework, but now, you want to have a map actually interview. You want to go to your business stakeholders to say, Hey, are you in line?

That we focus on customer relationship and that we tried to increase our time to market next year.

but also good to realize that this means that we won't decommission some application in the carpets and other signs of finance space because there are some tradeoffs to do all of a sudden a map like this gifts. Here's the impact if, Susie, see opportunity to talk to your stakeholders and derive joint decisions.

And obviously, you also want to understand xie.

Dependencies.

You want to understand to each a certain objective, for example, to save some money in the cloud, to be faster, time to market and customer services.

What initiatives, actually, depending on each other, what initiatives, are, depending on the same people, you want to be able to model out, um, causes dependencies between 2 or 3 actions in order to get reliable.

Um, boat maps, in terms of tracking.

It doesn't have to be complicated.

Like from our experience, even an easy dashboard which contains some baseline KPIs.

Which components, which workshops do I have, which, which provide us, where am I spending my money?

Where do I understands the business context?

Be it because of tagging, be it because of a current policy, but also, even more important, where don't I understand my business context?

Where do I understand who's responsible for a certain AWS or Azure account? Where do I understand security warnings?

Even a simple dashboard like this, is something that could tremendously accelerate and inform your cloud migration initiative.

And then, um, I admit, I'm a techie and add it at the beginning as well.

And if we want for a second look into our software development colleagues, then you will see that they are leveraging some nice, some nice stuff out there.

And GitHub, for example, has very intuitive ways to think about changes and branches in a way.

A change is not executed at first by the changes planned out at a set put what's it called branch?

So they move away from the core documentation, say, say, now I want to change my code, I want to test it, and only after a certain time, I want to bring it back into my main truong in order to have productive code.

What if we can think about our architecture planning and more things the same way?

Like, what if we can think, fine, Today, we are standing here with marketing, we have Salesforce, we have an SEM, etcetera?

Now, where do I want to stand in 20 21? Where do I want to stand, trying to trying to, and what if I following a cloud only strategy?

What am I following a multi vender strategy, what would be the implications on on this?

Um, and this is actually something where now X tries to help companies by providing some, some, some tooling around setting up a transformation lenses.

Second point. So, the first point was about the Cloud adoption framework.

The second point, I'd like to share ace.

Some tendency we see often in the market, don't stop with shifting.

And I mentioned this already in the beginning about ..., but so often, I still see companies stopping Wednesday, Half's, there are resources in the cloud.

To underestimate the value of containers of cloud native technologies like Lambda functions, for example, is something that will, in the end, hinder you from unleashing the full potential on your cloud.

So, again, it might be good to have a dashboard, it might be good to have some KPIs in place where you understand, what is my ..., if I say I want to close to go cloud native, let's be sure not to, not to underestimate the p.a.s. stuff.

Let's be sure to, to invest time into those topics, and not not to stay just lift and shift.

subtopic.

And the third topic here is about, again, fundamentals.

And you might want to say, it's about a bit unsexy fundamentals, but it's, again something that we are observing the entire notion of tagging policy in the cloud. It's so important because there is no way to that pleasant.

The business context natively with AWS, with Azure, and so on.

You have to rely on a tagging policy.

You have to rely on an account policy in order to understand ... actually belonging to my CRM, or VMs and belonging to my website, and what we are no longer in use.

And if we look into tagging, then we often see a framework like this as island and companies.

And all of the text up to see and hear a bit operations, be security, be it, others, say, Oh, well justified because this is so valuable information, but now you are a developer, and you want to maintain all of those texts.

Yes, you have infrastructure as code, but, still, it's an enormous overhead to, to make sure every tag is provide the right way and, even worse, you want to change things.

You want to say is as a new text that I need, GDPR, or some some different things and all of a sudden, you need to touch your entire co-pays again to adopt, you're, you're tagging.

So, what we are trying to do with, with customers, which is, we're trying to help somebody saying so tagging.

And let's think about, what if, I can maintain crime information, like responsibilities, or color information, like application name, based on an inventory which is closed to my cloud.

So, for example, if I only add the application ID into my cloud As text, then I don't need to update the name all the time. I don't need to update the department. I don't need to update the business capabilities.

Because I can rely on that the application ID will be mapped to everything else.

In particular would be mapped also to the ownership because obviously your reality in your company is that business ownership technology ownership is is changing.

And now you don't want to redeploy your workloads all the time.

If an owner is changing, but you want to have an inventory where you have it centrally at one place, potentially even sooner with identity management protocols like like CRM to make sure that you'll always understand who's responsible Forster account.

And also, you'll want to democratize certain key information.

You'll want to give the information directly to people, FCS and alert, whether this is in production system development system, where they totes classified data or not.

And ideally, you would give this information to people.

Not only like Wednesday can access the AWS portal and incidentally can access to that account, but you want to give this information to a larger base in your company in order to speed up decision making.

Similar topic, though, not exactly the same is about life cycles, actually.

Also, the baseline, and, but still, it's on, important to acknowledge how often things are changing with AWS, with Azure, and so on.

You might say, yes, as is fine, and my desk will take care about us. And yes, this is true to some extent.

But now, let us look deeper, for example, into, into AWS Lambda.

And all of a sudden, you understand that the topic of technology, obsolescence, and old software is also zero in a cloud environment, because, with the runtimes, for example, for, for Lambdas, they are no longer supported.

This does mean not only that it has a potential vulnerability that you cannot deploy anymore, but this would mean that AWS can stop the service for you after certain timeframe in your critical application.

So, to be aware of those topics like life cycle and risk, and tagging, is also a key foundation.

The first topic, I wanted to share is about knowledge.

and um.

We learned when working with our customers and peers that an efficient cloud adoption requires a joint understanding.

A cost involved parties cost on sea level, obviously. Cause Enterprise architect and cause cloud architects. And across others.

And this in a, in a scenario where all the technology around what was the workload that you have in the Cloud. It's heavily evolving.

As I said in the beginning, You want to have the latest technologies.

Because this is attractive to your people, and you can leverage the advantages.

What we see is that no developer actually likes to document.

They are stuff.

So developers are good at deploying your workloads into the cloud, but documentation is something which is really not not a strong topic for, for most developers.

So what we are trying to help companies with is to move towards automated source, software documentation, where is something deployed, what is deployed, and how it is supporting the business.

And again, your development team, your development colleagues, they will likely sync and automation so they will understands that documentation can be a vital part, office CI CD pipeline, whereas a deploys our stuff.

They can understand the value of linking, whatever they have deployed into the business context, into the hosted context.

So, potentially you would bring, um, much relief into your development team as well, if you encourage them to document things in an automated manner, because, in the end, they, they can save valuable time, but benefit from, from the outcomes.

The final aspect I wanted to share, it's about the CMDB.

And, if I have Cloud people in the calls, they will most likely, seeing a bit like, Whoa, CMDB isn't this a child, for the positive peak, cloud face, What we learn to acknowledge with our customers, as well, is, that, it's time to rethink, actually, the role of a CMDB.

And in Companies.

So, I mean, on the one hand, you all understand that, um, the, the entire dynamics of deploying things into the cloud changed so much.

You have all the freedom and benefits of thousand cloud components, you can launch a servo, isn't NaN, you have cloud now. Hundreds of decentralized teams.

But can use to manage the complexity of the inventory anti inflammation.

And, more important, CMDB typically has, is suffering from lower data quantity already in the on premise world.

So how can the CMDB actually, um, cope with something like this?

What we learned, and what I'd like to share some clear insights from our side, as well, as that, it's important to think hard about.

So, different aspects off, Um, office CMDB, often IT service management, we fully see and acknowledge that the court processes of incident and change management, they are as important for cloud native workloads than they are for on premise workloads.

But, often, we see that the support team support agents, have actually one job.

They need to find out who to approach.

They need to find out who is responsible for certain VM for certain microservice.

And then the level two, level three understanding, it's directly with the DevOps team, because they're actually running the software and say, um, they needs this information directly.

So what we're trying to help companies with is, on the one hand, to provide this reliable, um, information base, into existing IT service management, so that your level one support has the information at hand.

Who is responsible for something?

But, on the other side, um, don't force everyone, and in particular, not not force your development organization, into a CMDB thinking, because this would typically hinders them in order to do their job.

And Linux is trying to provide tools for, for having a cloud native governance actually, sitting in the middle of offices to, to say, I have a platform for my Cloud Center of Excellence For the people that are responsible for cloud architecture, who can establish the guidance to the left. So, we can reach out to development teams, and say, Hey, you need to deploy those texts. You need to make sure that you are using those services with AWS, those services with Azure, and so on, and so on.

And on the other side, they are feeding core information into into IT service management processes out of this.

Let's say, rely on a direct automation between the development organization and, and just support agents.

And again, um, this is this is a way to think about this.

What I would encourage you as a takeaway from this is, too, to challenge the existing imperatives and to try to break out of this to. For example, understand is a classical CMDB still suited.

Still helping you to set up some monitoring that you need in the cloud age, but also, did you address those concerns to address concerns, like change management and incident management when planning out your architecture?

So this leaves me with a quick summary.

Com, and what I tried to bring over and tried to argue for is in the end, so three takeaways that I'd like to share here.

So we learned a successful cloud adoption and a continuous successful cloud adoption, first of all, depends heavily on your ability to make objectives transparent to make plans transparent. What do I want to have?

Um, next, here, in the public cloud, what do I want to refactor, and what do I want to retire. If this is not transparent. Census will most likely run into arrows.

The second point I would like to share is, um, they are good ideas out there to reshape cloud governance.

Obviously, you need a cloud governance in order to operate your systems, We learned about IOT security as well.

For us, it's often the starting point with, with smart Tugging.

Because without, without a tech and policy, you do not really know why you are deploying workloads in the cloud to kinda think about .... You can have a hard time to hand the violation or incident management.

So, Smart Tagging is the baseline, called grid Cloud Governance, but also challenging the role of Exalt CMDB challenging how cloud architecture can worked together with, with IT service management, as part of since.

And finally, what I also want to share is that it's not only the operational part. It's also the development part of DevOps that is so important.

And if you have a practice in place where you have your software assets, your microservices automatically documented, where you understand who's responsible for something, where you understand often you are deploying something, send it. This is tremendously helping as well, too, to set up good practices in your cloud adoption, and the forms of business, so you are actually able to do the right thing.

We are basing this on experience, so we are very lucky position to, on the one hand work with tech companies, but also work with transformation, risks with digital enterprises who are actually transforming.

So, I would be very happy to now you see Q&As to also answer some some more questions around those experience that we are made there, but I would be also happy to connect afterwards. Feel free to reach out. For example, why LinkedIn?

And, let me know if you have any deeper questions.

Sites for this, I believe I would hand it over to, I'll say right now, thank you very much for your presentation. I'm gonna ask you that if you can go back on your slideshow to where you are, you had a summary, so that we keep those three items that you had as great as perspective and context for our discussion. So, we have a few minutes here for a Q&A.

And what I would like to do, I'm going to bring my camera on so the audience can see me.

But what I would like to do is to ask the audience that you have submitted already some questions here. I'm gonna relate, pick a few of them and relay them to Dominique. But if you have additional questions as you go to the end of the presentation here, please don't hesitate to type them in. Because I'm monitoring the questions are coming in, and I'll relate them to Dominic, accordingly, Dominik, the first question that has come up. It has to do with the impact of the global pandemic on, on the cloud migrations and really the cloud work, has it.

Has it changed significantly has accelerated, has lowered down what is your assessment and working across multiple industries on the impact of the pandemic on what companies are doing in the cloud.

So we we have seen one general goals that it's a pandemic is obviously a challenge to the, to the companies that we're working with but also also a chance to push things forward to push things like like like governance and also cloud transformation forward. So, we have seen customers shifting heavily from classical application portfolio management into more like the application of ...

process, forcing them to think about what does the applications that are really need to bring, for example, into the cloud, and where can I actually save my money in order to be more lean and, and more nimble.

We even launched a feature earlier, earlier this year with Make, which made it even easier to to access the available software, be it in the cloud, VSP it on prem, come from home office as well, because all of a sudden, your workload workforce at home? It's is even more dependent on a, on a really reliable infrastructure.

And also, we listen carefully, too, um, to companies who, right now, need to take into account latency. I need to take into account different availability zones, et cetera.

Where all of a sudden, the need to go faster into cloud, to leverage some of those advantages.

We are. We are more important.

So, in general, we we we witness that many IT organization sees this as a challenge, actually, to boost those initiatives because they are they are clear synergies with the situation.

Farewell, Vero, thank you for that question that has come come up, and maybe more of a theme that I'm going to paraphrase for you, is that, in your assessment, what has been the biggest challenge for organizations in moving to to, to a cloud environment? Or taking maybe taking better use of the capabilities that you can have and the benefits that you can have in a cloud environment? Is it about, is there a concern about, is it a lack of knowledge in organizations? It is a concerns about, loss of control, is the concerns about security as you work with, with those who have not fully adopted cloud. What do you see as the main barriers that they seem to present?

Um, it might be all three of them, like, it might be peeping knowledge.

And if we're going to ourself.

I mean, we are, we are a cloud phone company, We are right now, span that people in 100, 100, and development and product.

And even we ourselves, we need to invest lots of time into building Kubernetes, and Azure, and the like knowledge, et cetera.

So, um, I still talk to two clients, from time to time, which think about, so can outsource a cloud migration and, to some extent, uplift, the topic of knowledge and to accept that you need to build strong knowledge to run a cloud environment.

This, this would be my number one, take care, um, number two pick for me would be on this classical dilemma between business and IT.

Aye.

Um, had some, some arguments to say on the end. A good cloud migration is, is some business imperative, and not some IT decision.

Still see, a lot of companies struggling with, was understanding the, the impact that IT is having, and also seeing IT often, still as a, as a cost center, and let us see that many classical organizations said that, face face, the structure, um, have a challenge, and transforming themselves.

Even more important, I feel, when you, when you are starting a transformation like this, then, it's, it's so important to make it transparent, what you're actually doing, what's the dependencies on why you are doing stuff?

I believe, if you are not able to, to inform people why you are moving in, which direction you are moving, then in the end, as such, an initiative will most likely fail.

Very good. Those are very good perspectives, Dominique, and what we have, just a minute left here. So, our final question is that for those organizations, they are, there have not, you know, fully migrate or in the process of doing that.

And, uh, what is your best advice to them?

If, if they're, if they are thinking amount, You know, looking at cloud and the migration in a more structured approach, I mean, certainly you have, that's what your entire presentation is being about. But, if you focus on the most important thing that they need to do to, to start that automation, to start that the established cloud governance, what would you say.

What is your best advice for organizations there, are moving in that direction now?

I believe the best advice I could give is, it's not to try to boil the ocean.

Actually, on our side, and Linux ourselves.

We, We also made some design decision in the past, which, well, not, not like buys a book. in a migration support, something, we accept a modernist from time to time. Because this is a better way to, to get to the, to the business value. And then we, we accept the technical depth and move ahead.

So, we see companies struggling is when they try to, to improve everything at the same time.

Try to improve the way they build and develop software as a pattern, looks away, say they govern the clouds I tried to establish new tooling.

So what we clearly see is that the foundations are so important.

If you only go into your Cloud environment today, and, and look at the effect, what different VMs don't, I understand why they are there, and what as a costing.

Easy, quick wins, Lexus will make it make it simple for you to, to win over people and and drive things by continuous success that you can show.

Very good. Dominique, great presentation. Thanks for guiding all of us through a very methodical approach and a very good.

By zeal of successful migrations, we appreciate your sharing your time from cologne Germany to the world today with our global audience. Very much appreciative of your time and insights.

Thanks.

Let's say, for having me enjoy your day.

Thank you very much.

So ladies and gentlemen that was Dominique Dominique Rose from Levi X sharing his perspectives on end to end cloud transformation, and governance. We're going to wrap up the session now. And at the top of the hour, we're going to have a leader from Microsoft discussing Zuri: Golf, Governance, and Management.

And I'm very excited to have Peoria remained with us. He is a Senior Cloud Operations Advocate at Microsoft. And that will provide great insights to us on the on gut on cloud governance and management. So looking forward to that.

I see all of you back at the top of the hour and the till then.