Session Information:

How to Identify and Resolve “Points of Failure” in Business Processes

• How to break inertia by changing existing rooted perceptions?
• What is the best process to achieve on-going continues improvements?
• How to harness the right KPIs to facilitate buy-in of people on all levels of the company?
• The importance of focusing on tangible, visible results
• Creating a complete turnaround: from worst in class to BEST IN CLASS within few years. 

Session Transcript:

Eli ... is going to kick us off this morning, Doctor Eli. It's a real pleasure to have you with us this morning. I'm gonna do a very quick intro on doctor Eli. Doctor Eli ..., is the Executive Advisor and Director of the X Axis, an EVP of Global Operations, in a demo.

Doctor ... has an eternal drive to improve things around him throughout his career, within the public and private sectors. He has developed and implemented processes to improve big enterprise operations and their effectiveness by leading significant changes. There, doctor Eli's, leadership as an Executive VP for Global Operations at ... has become the best in class within its industry on all aspects of supply chain and inventory management. Doctor ... share with us his insights about this dramatic change. It's a real honor. Doctor Eli ... your head you hear directly from Tel Aviv, Israel to share your expertise.

Thank you for your introduction and thanks for the organizers for allowing this opportunity this time, this terrible time, to have these meetings and conference ah.

So, uh, need to retry.

OK, so, ah, uh, does already was kind to present me, but I would say one feed, ..., fashion, two, two true feelings and actually, I have zero tolerance for what I see in effectiveness.

So I'm doing my best to improve things around, to do the right changes, throughout my career, ah, and ah.

So these are the much I enjoyed.

About eight years ago, 2012, it's really a great company. You can see here the main attributes is the number one in the world to provide of patent troll protection.

What do you take, their own arena, including the patent based companies, it's number six, is possible for about 67% of the total sales.

Sales of about $4 billion, out of something like us, see, it doesn't change, Can you see the slide, OK?

Ah!

So, out of about $60 billion for the total, total industry, ah, ah, company grew a lot in the last 20 years, about three times your general sector and it's really fabulous.

Serves almost the whole continent, more than 100 countries.

An important fact that we refer to later, it's, Provide the widest portfolio exist. So, sell something like more than 300 different active ingredient. We call it AI. It's not artificial intelligence. It's active ingredient is actually the molecule that had the plants to grow.

So, this is what ... is doing.

So I joined the company and, you know, getting the responsibility for everything from R&D, engineering, production, supply chain. So we'll see almost everything except sales.

So, I thought bake based on my background. I would focus mainly on R&D, really production.

Then, just before joined the company, I met the chairman of the company after a long, nice chat, Toby.

Elie, you have one dish.

one main task, this is taking care of our working capital, taking care of our, our is it, though?

That time, I didn't understand what he meant, and then, I joined the company, and I saw the big issue.

So, ah, what is happening?

Is it the company, although it ranks really great on sales and developing new products, et cetera, right, growing, actually, do not make money.

So, we'll make profits, but because of the high inventory, because of the investment, actually the company did not make money.

So, we have, on one hand, I inventory, carry out I, working capital shortages, very, it's extremely high produce vehicles. So, said, OK, let's deal with it.

What is the challenge?

So, otherwise I said before, serving something like more than 300 different tactics.

Now, just to give you the flavor, the food industry is selling something like 600 miles actually heavy in the offering at half of the total agrochemical actives.

Now, for each one of these acting, you can may different products different code that can be different concentration, different additives, sometimes combination of fuel molecules.

So they are 15 adverts more than 15 hundreds of different products. Now each one of these four that can be different size, different label for different crops.

So you have more than 50,000 SKU now for if you are in a sense for some marketing, this is a huge asset, because you have almost everything in the past.

Combining this. Gregor was the fact that you have to serve more than 100 countries, Ghana was the fact that they absolutely shelf life of the product is less than two years from.

Production.

You actually full operation is a real nightmare, and this caused most of the problems that they showed before.

So, the outcome is very clear. Vicious cycle, I carry out the working capital.

So, not enough money to invest in other stuff, the company live shortages, because you are spreading same product all over the world, so you have many shortages, you want to keep some balance of the inventory, and most significant the complete mistrust between production ..., supply chain. So we, of course, of course, the more you have mistrusts higher inventory, because people ask for what, do, to make sure they have, what they need to send.

Ah, And in addition, all these vicious cycle bring some other, wonderful things, like a lot of free work, X one, which is the cost. And on addition to these also, poor quality. Because when you build all these Reworks repackaging, relabeling you don't do it in your best production sites.

Would you have quality control somewhere else? Some, sometimes in the warehouse. So you lose, also the quality.

So solutions, because the company work, was aware of the situation and tried many things as solutions.

So not the one KPI was focused the fewest.

Of course it didn't work. Know, what is agriculture you have.

I'm predicting whether you are predicting disease or the crops are many, many different things are changing without any ability to forecast.

You put pressure on the people to give you these accuracy, because otherwise you cannot manage our supply chain.

This also caused a lot of frustration, older people because push them hard.

You give them a KPI to do a better forecast.

They do their best, but they cannot deliver the results.

Then, you try sophisticated IT solutions.

Now, I know the theory that many people are from IT solution companies.

I have, I like IT tools, I use a lot of IT tools, But somebody mentioned before, what happens if you teach very sophisticated IT tool on a bad process? You don't solve anything, you just make it worse.

So this didn't work extremely, highly sophisticated statistic beast.

Statistic based machines. But the process was, was not good enough.

So not only does it work, you wished it out of resources, and one thing about this, a statistical based software, it's based on the building. What happened last year will happen next year.

But again, this is agriculture, doesn't work this way.

So another solution was controlling it for you only dicing each and every government. Now, this, to some extent, can work.

Once you do, just delay someone, do you want the numbers to be very good at the end of the quarter. So you delay more, helps to green the numbers, now, but he didn't really solve the problem.

And, you know, if you do the same things again and again and again, at the end, you cannot expect different results.

I just mentioned to the Ginger Salberg Dodgson was saying, this is insanity to expect different results by doing the same in assembly to C.

So here I am in the company.

Looking at the situation, I am newcomer to this industry, so people in the company really tell me, Listen. You have issues.

This is the way of life. You cannot do anything to really change it. And they strongly believe it.

So the best thing I've found is put a Bureau in the face and gloom present benchmarks.

So I brought in, one of the best companies actually has the Turtle DACA of the giants in our business. It was possible for almost 90% of the total sales, acceptable.

They've got a real, deep analysis.

As benchmark in the other companies, they came up with peace.

So, leave aside 2009, when the company has some internal problem.

If you look at the three years from 2012, you see that a demand is actually happening 235 days of inventoried, which is the worst in class.

So, it's not only look close to the average because you see here, but it also lower the lowest in the class.

You can observe one more thing if you look at the industry.

On the head, Big part of the inventory, back in there, Becky I called. So, production in raw materials, it much, much less in the field and the countries and this is something that took into account.

So after this benchmarking I remember when I presented this to the management of asthma, everybody was like shocked.

You are not the grapes greatest, but they didn't know how good we are.

So, this was like putting a mirror, showing, you can do some, something else.

Ah, what was the main paradigms, if you get to change?

So, people really believe that if you have inventory, you will have less shortages, Why? Because you allow more.

So, we'll see a lot more production to make sure you have, since actually, it's the opposite. And, I'm going to go.

Just think that if you buy your inventory, you would have resulted just, from the work we have done, managed to increase, sure to increase the availability, so we using shortages, and at the same time, reduce drastically.

So, we had to change the product so, first, first step was to share benchmark results.

All live in the same level is really all relevant today guys it's working declared or because it's held in the country.

Ah important no blaming.

This is you have to respect what people have done they have done the best this is the way the thought they should work so very, very important.

Nobly then we have to show the patient.

So it's not quality slogans it's put food on the table very few principle for the direction and the direction for the solution, not the solution the full solution you build with the team.

Ah you could read the paper, present the direction, they will come up with these ideas then build OK.

Then very important task is to look for partners Partners I have one great partner is the CFO of the company, but they found many other partners that understand what we need to do.

What do you talk with, Fatness quotation about this? You have to know why they behave as they have to look at their KPIs today and what's changed.

And I will talk about KPI's later, because I believe this is one of the most important parameters.

Then, you do pilots want to demonstrate the ability of your solution or fuel with addiction to really bring value.

So take some pilots, what actively important, once looked.

Not something we've got to build, but some things that you can do really fast to show the results.

What did we come up with the ideas?

Look at the supply chain characteristics, And you see that on the left side, when you have materials associated with production, were a very long time, on one hand, but also you have relatively accurate forecast.

So, if you look at the total amount of same type of product, along the years, you see very small ....

Now, if you go to the right side, you choose the SKU level, or the distributor or farmer, then you have, you need to have very short, retired, or whatever, but it's very cool ability to forecast. So, you need to learn these in order to take advantage of the different behaviors of the supply chain.

Ah, no!

This is: doctor rarely go. Late. looked over the past three years ago, was good friend and mentor swelled my professional career.

Probably some of you knew him, probably many reading books, sold all over the years. And when I look at these paradigm, I remember what you said about certainty.

So event management of the company tried to force goce silicon on an uncertain situation: not oddities, it doesn't bring value, create a lack of negative feedback. And I saw everything at this link.

So we need to look in the Silicon Valley cities. We cannot change.

We need to learn how to embrace it, how to cope with it, and how to give the flexibility of the operation in order to address cannot force silicon. This is something that, when people were asked to give more.

Precise, forecast the fill, again, and again.

So, again, very sure to these principles, of course, the food solution for every geography or every different kind of operation will be different, but use the same things.

So limited, long term focus.

So you still need the long-term forecast, when I joined the company, the process procedure wars said, that Selig units have to create forecast for 18 months on an SKU level.

Just imagine, in agriculture, this has also been a thought.

So, change the method.

So, the app could view the log log term forecast, just for sourcing reserves and full capacity plan, so already on there, aggregate amount of materials, and so forth and so on, and here, you can use some IT tools of statistical tool, some more sophisticated tools, then you push, We change the direction of the supply for push forward, based on actual sales.

So, we created something called dynamic buffer, a very few words about Ethereum.

You, of course, need some very intelligent tools to do it, instead of saying, OK for this product. Because he is ... 30% buffer for this product, that can go down to 5% margin. Buffer.

What you do is, you actually look at this since changed the buffer issue, so you really neat tool that can just very quickly the actual settings and give feedback to the supply to adjust the plan.

Of course, these code for much more flexi bird operations.

So this part of the principle and will not get into details here but look at every each and every step on ..., formulation, SKU level.

What is the characteristic of this part and what do we need to create the products?

And again, I will not get into details, but because a lot of very intensive study.

Then of course by so we will present two very short case studies.

one was you know, Europe is one of the most lucrative reported markets for Ottawa.

It's very large market, very regulated, slow, strictly regulated market.

So the company has advantage on this market, when you look at these case studies.

So the actual do you have?

from the same product shabby, from the same formulation with many different products. So, instead of sending to the country's all the products, they handled the season.

By the way, these wars, the way the molecule it for years, because of the goddess of these market, let us send everything to the country's before the season kicks. It will show, you have to do in this way.

So, we created that hub in Europe, getting signals from the sales. So we supply to the countries already, small amount, started the season season.

Then we measure what they sell dailey.

And with this signal, change the planning so we could react within days to refill whatever they need to sell. Your mobile, our YouTube aggregation like these. The better.

We spoke to the market, availability went up, inventory went down, Everything we do, we frequently, these pilots show you the results, very quickly. So, this is the end of season inventory, which is a very important parameter, because, remember, we have to use, say, shelf life.

So if you don't sell the product, maybe you have bought one more year.

In most cases, the problem doesn't want to buy products that they only want to hear.

Even if it does, that won't be what you said. So.

If you look at the three years from 2010 to 12, the country level, we stay was 25% of the product.

At the end of this, percent from total sense, we skip pilot, went down 10% and yet another 5% in the hopper still not label. The parts are still very flexible.

So, but you know, people are suspicious, so people come and say, maybe this year was better. Maybe this code, that's where it's well, baby will happen even without the spiral zone.

We made all the configurations.

So, here, you see, the blue one is the end of season, So, you see the pile of items 10% in the country level, you see, or the same countries what they have on their other products, 38%. Then, you say, OK, let's see, the total sales.

So, all the items in these countries, it was quite a good year, 96% of the forecast total focus was served, all the items.

We actually sim sold 117 from the forecast. And the reason is because we have these up, because we have the ability to push more to the country's when the symbol, we could actually exceed the glib since these wonderful year.

Ah, by the way, when we finish these pilots, the plan was to move to a bigger pile-ups, the leader of leaders of the countries of the region came to us and say perfectly that's moved to full-blown two year later we've already done for pledge of the of the same plan without any payment.

Then, second, case studies, the US, completely different markets, very, extremely competitive market, relatively low margins.

Let me make a few distributors, the mock codes to formulation in packing facilities, but they work as independents. Business units are now talking about it.

Later, they use many, many different warehouse to carry out because they want to be competitive.

So deploys the market 24 hours, seven days and these required many, many warehouses all over the country.

So reality check cables the with the directions with the principal and check reality.

First 1 was 24 hour prompts.

We found out that there is no edit button to distribute this from. now.

If you cleanse, if you have a weak product or service, there is only one way to check whether these unique service or product remove an important obstacle or barrier for your customer.

Ah, only just something nice to have, but no real important button.

Checking the reason we say, OK, let's change it for 48 hours, like if somebody really wants 24 hours, you will pay 10% more than Smith said, MoCA Gun is less than 1% of the cost.

Nobody wanted to pay me. That doesn't really help anybody.

So, Jay.

Then, we found out that the US. Is using a lot of external, formulators pack, and companies can do the backing that.

this is because the old plants really because they were business unique, and their KPIs for to make money. So they made more money to go for external customers and to go to external providers.

Nobody can do this.

Susan's very short or everybody has the same peak. So the formulate the asking if you want us to give you the south-east love to buy the wool materials ahead of time. six months before the season.

So not only did they have shortages because during the season they don't ever any capacity to deliver. the also a very high cost only got 1 or 2 things.

So we change very few things, change the logistics, spread too few ups.

Again, it would be very 48 hours.

Change the structure and operation mode of the plug plants now.

First priority, Godhead KPI to make more first put your levy, so the savings over the US, they can do much faster. They can do during the season. They can people with disabilities.

By the way, when they do work outside of Stellar customer, they made the process of half a billion dollars.

This was down to about 200,000 to 300,000. And so we lose $100,000, sales went up, drastically. Inventory went down dramatically, Only logistic costs went down by more than one billion dollars.

So this is just for this small change.

And people were happy to change results, sharp, increase in availability because we have different these facilities percent down.

All of these is more than one drastic reduction in the time. Of course.

So everything was changing just two very small things, by the way, again, year after, made the new process put in the best IT tools and support. So again, IT Tutsi Cup after the right process to make it better, not to replace these causes change.

And I talked a lot about KPI. So for me, this is extremely important in most of the very good projects of improvement.

Doesn't really happen because of injections because of people because of KPI's.

Again, these doctor radiography, one of these beautiful phrases, tell me how you measure a good idea.

So the plants can behave like they need, because they will bad, or what to damage the company. This is the way there'll be rich.

So what we have done to change to this deeply geek out, so we involve all the people from northern parts, showed diffusion, showed the world.

But also, we have done some simulations against these very beautiful IT tools to simulate the expected outcomes in exchange.

So, we chose the paper, what will be the results, if we do, A, B, C, ah, very important when you have the solution.

Don't ignore criticism.

Don't ignore objections, If you really embrace this, you have the gold mine, because these criticism, these objections, if you take that into account, will make your solution much, much better, because they know some they bring their fears, they bring their fearful negative impacts.

We take these into account just perfect solution up focus of global KPI's.

This is not these don't come to the guy managed Warehousing Mexico. You tell him.

Now, you are.

All of us responsible for the group inventory.

How can a country, you know what, after a very short time, people from all over the world, from all kinds of activities, like Silk production.

They, Kim's ideas how to make the management of the total operation much better and they changed their operation to support these global?

Luke, not easy, but bring huge vimy results are amazing, can see here, the inventory, is going down.

But this is not enough, Again, maybe this will happen, The industry made me disease.

No, just because we focus.

So, again, benchmark: this is the only way.

So we look for 2000, 2017.

I went down from 238 days to 172, what happened to the industry?

The same guy go up, went up from 200, the average dollar 70.

Now you can see these red silicates, the mud turned around for being worst in class.

We wait first in class, in less than four years, and this was nobody believed, this could happen.

This is reality.

And my good friend, the CFO of the company always told me, OK, very nice, very wise, intelligent process. Show me the money.

So $400 million reduction, working capital, just because of these activities. This is about 25 to 30% of the total voting Coca-Cola company, so it's not something smart.

Availability, actually be more than what you see here.

Let's go from 75 90, but you also change the way we measure. We're much more strict one, so it's really a jump.

Additional savings, every everywhere logistics production costs, of course, because you pulled the process.

Quality Without trust, all these elicit phobias.

Always a question. So we've got all these, what is next?

one, think, one way to see if your solution is consistent, used to see what happened when he left. I left the company two years ago.

Results are continuing with very, very good way, even better than what.

But I want to show it to show you the some people believe Coughlan the Greenpeace.

They could be that if you made the jump in performance, then you couldn't, you can gradually go up.

I strongly believe, in the red line.

Why? Because when we made all, you got all these changes, perfect your operation, perfect your system.

Now, you can aim much higher and much higher targets.

This is my personal belief. So thank you for all your attention.

And one thing to remember.

I believe this can be done, any company, any time, anywhere, in the coastal, they'll be very happy to show why they want, what I, thank you very much.

Doctor Abramoff, what I'm masterclass on, on the Operational Excellence, business transformation, and the, in the context of Intelligent Business Process Management, real intelligent business process Management, leveraging all the aspects of the process of the people of the technology. So, doctor ..., I'm going to ask you that you stop sharing your presentation right now, so that the audience can see us on the big screen.

Perfect, and that, and for all of you in the audience, if you could submit your questions in real time here on to doctor ..., I will relay as many as possible. I can see the questions coming in. So there are, there are a number of questions coming in, which is exciting to see. So I'm going to start with, ..., Mansour asked about your effort right in the beginning When you when you drove the effort to reduce and optimize this large number of SKUs that you had based on the, how did you approach that? Did you do use a ... formulation based on demand? What was your approach for reducing the number of offerings that you had?

So, thanks for the question.

So to start, please, we didn't really, would use any number of offering these, by the way, happened, 2007 peak when we finished piece and say, OK, what is next? Let's now improved the offering.

So, at this time, we just change the operation without touching the offer.

But what happened is over the country level, people now, they have done it themselves, because they say, OK, we have to control our inventory. We have to cook for the company. Let's keep up of the things that bring less money.

So, we didn't do anything from sintra, these happen by itself.

Very, very interesting. What about a, tell us a little bit about the beginning of this journey? How did you get involved with Adam? Did they have internally. They saw the need, that you had a relationship, and they thought bring you in with the help. Maybe one more were, What were their expectations as they brought you into the company, to help you on their journey? What was their perceived problem? A problem early on, that they want you to work on. So, to be honest, I don't think they knew.

Ah, I think.

So I was brought to the company by the CEO at the time that you about me when I was a CEO of the Biggest Engineering probably heard something about me And Colby.

And by the way, he said, listen operationally, you change all over into production.

So seeing all over, it was when I analyze the picture, I talked with all the other partners. We stay Legion. Everybody realized that we need to start with the supply chain, the way that is the supply chain.

I can tell you that the number of complain I heard about the mistrust in the company.

So people really didn't trust each other from the supplier to production to the countries. So, you know what? You don't trust somebody who asked for more, because you don't believe you will deliver.

The performance of the delivery will vary 75%.

By the way, when I showed 75%, the way they measured, which costs will be very, very rogue, they measure the full due date they promised to deliver.

When I said we jumped to rank, the piece was of the requested requested date, Not all diploma. So it's a real need.

You tell me what you need when you need, and I'll bring it there.

So change completely the way we think. So. Again, company not blend these change. They knew something needed to be changed.

I spent six years in Ottawa as the Executive Vice President Appropriations.

And I felt that I'd done everything to bring the value in.

Uh, don't, yeah, absolutely, does a fantastic case study and proof of concepts in action. So, another question that has come up is, that, as you joined the company, and it seems like you're in a leadership role, but in the operations side of the business. Some of the changes that you have shared with us today are very profound changes in the entire business. Not just the operation side. So, you had to influence marketing. You had to ancient last a number of different parts of the leadership team that was a little bit about how are you able to do that. How are you able to get this? This changes go way beyond operations. So, how are you able to influence the, the other members of the leadership team?

Well, I don't think there is a crystal ball or silver bullet.

For these, I can tell you that I, when I talk to these people, really listen to what bothered them.

By the way, when I joined the ...

think I was bleak is two weeks on my total cost to fix, the original heads will understand what stopped them from selling. Well, this is what my question I get to each one of them asked, What prevents you sell sell today, let's say, Brazil, for other media? What stop you to sell?

Because the market is huge.

one of the advantage of a company, like I don't know if you compare them to see Gentile by one of these big giant, is that they only take 67% of the market.

So the room to grow is huge. So these questions bring a lot of information.

Then, I believe that what I talked about KPI's cushion because, just froze up, and you can take the inventory, or this was it each country responsible for their inventory.

Now, let's say I'm in France, and I want to make sure, why would they have enough to sell, so I would order more from the company.

If I see that I can sell, I tell them, stop. When I say stop, don't read the bullet ... produced. So people really hate the company, had the local KPIs, but not the content.

So, the real change that this was at the beginning of five, then, full understanding, the KPI of total inventory of the company, was shared by everybody in the company.

So, even if your salesperson manager of a warehouse, you bought this Global KPI, these brig, it looks strange at the beginning, because people are used to the fact that they are supposed to be careful there, territory for their part. But the big, huge fight with what we started. So, the first two pilots peppered the one year, 2015.

So, what do you show people, the benchmark and the results of this pilot, then it's easy to go forth.

Absolutely, you implemented some very transformational principles in the organization, and then you also demonstrated that you have very clear mechanisms to translate those principles into execution and intro action. So that was that was very impressive. Now, how what do you consider to be? And you may have just answered this, but one of the questions I want to confirm, because one of the question is: What is the biggest success factor as you look back at this 5 to 6 year journey? And Your various you had a very successful journey. If you look back in hindsight, what was the biggest success factor or what the things that you did, that was like, Well, I'm glad I did that, because that really set us in the right direction.

Ah.

Well, if you as the CFO will say the body, but I think, I think the, the relationship between, you know, this kind of flexible operation, in order to maintain it, you need a very high level of communication.

So, for example: if I said before, before I joined the company, the way we get the focus was: the countries made the forecast, they send the results, what did we change?

You were seeking one country after the other, made the focus together with them.

So, if they said, OK, we're going to sell these amount of these products, we asked, OK, last year, you saw half of it, all 70%. What is changing in the market may make you believe and simple.

Then the camera pulls out certain silken, So, now we know what are the drivers that we need to look. So, we look together these drivers at the beginning of the season.

So it requires constant communication, you know, very, I live in.

And of course, trust between all the parties involved, ah, some, some are very tough, for example, new products. You don't have history, you don't have any reference. So what you do is we put, especially pinch to take care of supply only for new product, because it requests much more, attention cost much, more flexibility.

Breaking the rules, because you want to be there in the market, didn't work.

So, ah I think is the level of communication.

And then the trusted created with this level of, because, when you know why the other gosh, give you these numbers, you can help him to do better in each field. So, it's a lot of communication.

Ah.

So, again, you know, the principles are very simple, but when you go, we have done later on solutions like these in India and Brazil. Brazil is the perfect solution.

I don't know what happened now because of the situation there, but it was the perfect solution to anywhere, because they are very disciplined when it's come to solution they do so.

It was a great success, we are.

Tribally China, the device, worrying about China, notice, but, again, take the principal, but don't just send them weeds.

And for each market, you do a very detailed planning with the people in this region, makes you his principal.

Can we adjust these market because they are completely different?

Thank you very much, less than doctor Abraham off, I'm originally from Brazil. I'm gonna go back there now and I can see how things are working out. So, I wanna thank you for what you have shared with us today. And, the many reasons, And, one of the reasons is a great example, that how technology is wonderful, but, also, how technology does not solve certain business problems, like the ones you mention. Because just implementing technology and the old system and principals would have made a bad decisions faster, perhaps, but really move the business in the right direction. Great example of how you and should be to the culture, the structure, the business model. And once you had isn't a good model, now, you can implement technology that will enable them Model Churchill work. So, thank you so much for sharing your expertise today. It's from Israel to the world. It's a, it's a real pleasure, a real honor for us. Thank you very much. Thank you. Bye, bye. Bye, bye.

Ladies and gentlemen, this complete gone concludes this session. We're going to be back at the top of the hour. We're going to go back into technology and we're going to talk about how we can drive return on investment on a model based enterprise. And can Hartman who is the managing director of DSA is gonna give us a masterclass on how to do that. So, from process heavy to technology having on the next segment. Make sure that you close your session, and you provide feedback through the short survey that that will be available to you. So, thank you SEO back again, at the top of the hour.